Innovation Pathways Podcast -sarja: Yrittäjyyskulttuuri innovaatioiden ajurina

Tomi Tuovinen: Welcome to the Innovation Pathways podcast! This is the show that explores how ideas move from curiosity to real-world impact. I am your host, Tomi Tuovinen. I work as an innovation advisor at the University of Eastern Finland, where I help students and researchers take their first steps towards developing and commercialising their new ideas. Today we are talking about something essential for every modern university. And the question is, how do we build a strong and supportive entrepreneurial culture? And how can student communities, universities and venture capital work together to turn students' and researchers' ideas into real, investable start-ups? I am joined today by two fantastic guests. We have Mikael Myllymäki, venture capital investor at Redstone from North Karelia Growth Fund, investing in North Karelia. Mikael works closely with early-stage companies, bringing insights into what makes university-originated ideas compelling and how early projects evolve towards investment readiness. We have also Hanna Ojuva, who is the president of the Joensuu Entrepreneurship Society and also a student in theology. Hanna represents the student-driven side of entrepreneurship, the curiosity community spirit and supportive environment that helps people try out ideas and learn from the process. Mikael and Hanna, welcome to the podcast and glad to have you here!

Mikael Myllymäki: It is a pleasure to be here!

Hanna Ojuva: Great to be here!

Tomi Tuovinen: The first theme that we would like to dive into is more on the grassroots culture and the founder incubator perspective. First, I want to ask Hanna, how did you personally get involved with the Joensuu Entrepreneurship Society and what sparked your interest in the topic?

Hanna Ojuva: That is a very good question. Until this day, I am not quite sure how I ended up here. It all started, I guess, when the city of Joensuu had this student project. The baseline was, how do we get students to stay in Joensuu after graduation? We need jobs; we need more companies. Maybe we need student-led companies, also. This was the baseline on it. And the project manager and me, we got connected by a mutual friend of ours. We just met, and he wanted someone who was an active student, and a well-connected student. And he was asking me the same question, "How did you actually end up thinking of entrepreneurship? And what do you think about it?" And I had not thought about what entrepreneurship was. I studied church history, so it was nothing related to it. He was silent for a moment and then he just dropped that subject, and we carried on with brainstorming the project. And a year ago, I was doing my internship with him in that project. We ended up doing all kinds of exciting things, like hackathons and so on. We were just ideating, and it was fun. And at the end of the project, he told me, "Do you know that everything we have done here is actually entrepreneurship? This all is connected to that." And I thought, "Are you serious?" Because I had this really boring and dull picture of entrepreneurship. I just saw these finance people in a meetings doing excels. So, that was what really got me excited, "What is this entrepreneurship thing? And why haven't I heard of it before?" And the project manager also mentioned that we used to have this Joensuu Entrepreneurship Society back in the day. And I thought, "No need to say more. Let us make it happen again!" Because my passion is to create communities. So, I was thought, "Here is a need for this. Let us make a community!" And that is how I ended up doing this.

Tomi Tuovinen: Very good. So, in your opinion, what role does a student-driven community like Joensuu Entrepreneurship Society play in the shaping of this atmosphere around entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial mindset and start-ups?

Hanna Ojuva: Well, I think my story is just a great example of it. I think a lot of people do not actually know what entrepreneurship is. And then, they have this stereotypical picture that it is something dry and something boring. So, I think what we do as JoES and the community is we help people to see what entrepreneurship really is. Especially in Joensuu, at UEF, where we have a lot of humanists, language science students, educational students who are not dealing with entrepreneurship in their studies, they have these stereotypical pictures of it. So, we are trying to get people excited about entrepreneurship without mentioning the word "entrepreneurship." I think that is the key thing that we are doing — we get people to do it without them realising that this is what they are doing.

Hanna Ojuva: And if I may add, what I really love about you and your team is that you really bring that energy into the process. These things do not happen by process. Entrepreneurship needs that energy. And I think you are a big contributor in that.

Mikael Myllymäki: Yes. It is something that you cannot generally fill a position for, but you really need the students who are just willing to do anything. And everything else is just a by-product from that excitement.

Tomi Tuovinen: Right. That actually already answered what I was about to ask next, that if we think of Joensuu Entrepreneurship Society as a founder incubator, then what are the first steps that it offers students who are only just starting to get a little bit curious about entrepreneurship?

Mikael Myllymäki: That is a good question. I think for many people, there is just the possibility to do something you have always wanted to do. For example, if you have any events idea, any project idea, if there is anything you have ever wanted to try out, we help you with the resources and make it happen. So first, you have dreams, ideas, and then stepping in to really make them happen. That builds character. You start to take responsibility; you start to take action and leadership of what really is a burning passion of yours.

Tomi Tuovinen: Mikael, since you are a representative of a venture capital company, what connection do you see in the very early stage student-driven start-up activities to venture-capital-ready start-ups that interest also VCs such as Redstone?

Mikael Myllymäki: I start by actually looking at the list of the most valuable companies we have today: Meta, Alphabet, or Facebook or Google, if you call them that. They have got their roots deep in universities. And even more so, when you look down the list of the most valuable companies, almost all of them are venture-backed. So, I think there is a big connection between what we are talking about here and the sharpest end of the biggest and most valuable companies today. And as I look at it a bit more selfishly as a VC investor, the students today, they are the founders of tomorrow, building these companies. So, for us, our business model is identifying the top entrepreneurs. And this is our pool of talents that we tap into. So, it is a very crucial aspect of doing our business very well.

Tomi Tuovinen: In Aalto University, these student-led communities and initiatives have really helped launch this phenomenon, such as Slush, for example. And they have contributed to the origin stories of companies like Wolt. So, from the VC perspective, what lessons can these universities like University of Eastern Finland learn from that kind of student-led doing?

Mikael Myllymäki: I would start by saying that the heroes of the story are the students, the founders. And I guess it is up on us as the investors and as the enablers to remember that the number-one priority should always be helping these people build these exceptional companies. That is the foundation of everything we do. And I think thousands of success stories we see at Slush are proof that this can be done. It is not like we are shooting in the dark, that we have only got a vision of being able to build these companies, but rather there is also concrete, real evidence that that is feasible. Therefore, I think we should also believe that it can be done. These examples really show that it is possible.

Tomi Tuovinen: Indeed. How often have you seen a university environment where a purely student-driven community had started the process that later led to venture capital investment? And what are the distinct characteristics of that environment that makes this possible?

Mikael Myllymäki: I should take a bit of issue with the word "purely" there. I think a purely community-driven thing means that somebody is not doing their job right. I mean, it is our job to be helping everyone. So, we should not be implying that they are doing it alone. That said, isn't this exactly what Facebook was? They also started this way from very small and then started building the company and got to bigger markets for more money down the line. So, it is our job, I think, to make it as likely and as feasible as possible for these students to have that path, to have that community to be a part of, to have the examples to believe. And I guess also the ecosystem's help and access to capital — that is, of course, our job as an investor to provide that access to capital.

Tomi Tuovinen: Yes, very well put and a necessary correction to the question. Moving on to the second part, I would like to talk about different forms of collaboration or collaboration research and where to find the venture capital fit. Continuing with Mikael, in your opinion, what does a VC-ready university environment look like? What happens between students and researchers and alumni?

Mikael Myllymäki: I think the strength of university is really the technology, the IP. I mean, it is very hard to build a very valuable company if you actually do not have a moat, a protective barrier against competition. And good technology is a good way to protect your business from others. That is something you uniquely can do better than others. So, I think what a VC university brings in is the kind of structure in enabling this technology and this IP to be commercialised into companies. And that is very difficult. I mean, many stakeholders need to play ball there: the university, the lawyers, the coaches, the investors, and everyone else. If we look at the US, MIT is a great example. It is not just that they have a good process but really great events in the start-up space, full-time dedicated team travelling the world, trying to encourage investors to also look at MIT spin-outs and a strong ecosystem of funds that exclusively invest in MIT. So, it is a good example to inspire from as we think about this question.

Tomi Tuovinen: How important it is for student start-ups to connect early on with the local accelerators or accelerators in general, or angel investors or funds like Redstone?

Mikael Myllymäki: To me, the key word there is "expertise." You do want to have help from somebody who knows the ins and outs of building a start-up. A key word that often comes across in venture capital is "pattern recognition." I mean, every start-up is different, but there are similarities, patterns, as we call them, between them. And I think a big role of all of these projects or entities, or accelerators and investors, funds that you mentioned, is not just capital in the case of funds but also that expertise in recognising those patterns of what can go wrong, what the best practices are, and in this way help follow. I mean, the customers will follow great products and sales. And investors will follow great customers. That is clear.

Tomi Tuovinen: Right. If we were speaking directly to the UEF's leadership, what kind of a message would you give them about why investing in student communities and entrepreneurial culture is financially smart or smart in general for the university and the region?

Mikael Myllymäki: I have actually talked to them many times already. And the key message for me perhaps is really making entrepreneurship a third pillar besides research and teaching at universities, and really back your people. You have got all these fantastic, aspiring and executing entrepreneurs who really give them the credit. At Redstone, we led a university start-up index study not too long ago, for 2025. There is a lot of interesting stuff to it, but in short, over a ten-year potential, we identified about €7 trillion in equity value, €5.5 trillion in GDP, 13 million jobs that can be created by universities acting best in class and supporting these start-ups. So, we are talking about real numbers. If you put this in the context of Finland, or Europe in this case, and our economy, this really does move the needle. And I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Tomi Tuovinen: Moving on a little bit towards Hanna, and some questions for Hanna. Since JoES is operating on the ground in students' everyday lives, how do you build bridges between students and research groups or university staff? Are there some examples of some joint projects or events? Can you give an example of a situation where these student-driven activities, for example an event, project or something like that, has turned into some kind of real-world impact?

Hanna Ojuva: That is a good question. If I think of just my path in the university, I have not really gotten across so many researchers. I feel like they are somewhere doing the research, but kind of hidden. They are not so visible. But I think it is nice that with JoES we have this weekly event talk about business where we eat tacos and talk about business. A quite simple concept, and it is really open for everyone. A few researchers from UEF have actually gotten into there. And it is a great space to meet them and actually hear about the research, what they are doing and how they would like to turn it into a business. That is one example of an event that builds a bridge for those who are excited about it.

Tomi Tuovinen: What about if you do not like tacos?

Hanna Ojuva: We have, once a month at least, some international cooking, home country's food. This month, we had Sri Lankan food. So, there are options sometimes.

Tomi Tuovinen: I think that is a brilliant concept that you have.

Hanna Ojuva: Yes. And it does not matter if you like tacos or not. You like free food, right? [Chuckles]

Mikael Myllymäki: And as we are talking about building bridges here, it is SOHJO week after all that we are recording this. It would be a miss not to mention the great after party I am looking forward to tomorrow. I mean, this really brings in the ecosystem. And more seriously, this does matter, getting the people in the same space. So, there I really applaud you for the work you are doing. I think it really does have an impact.

Hanna Ojuva: Yes. And another thing that has built a bridge between us and the staff of the university is, for example, this BLANK hackathon. So, we have asked companies and organisations to give real-life problems for students to solve, and that is something we have done together with the UEF staff. For example, we really wanted to have a challenge that would be related to each faculty. So, we would have at least three challenges from each faculty, real-life problems. We were talking with the staff and asking these experts, "You know about forestry. What could be the companies we could ask for the challenges?" So, this kind of collaboration has been done.

Tomi Tuovinen: What matters in the JoES community's activities? Do you see "the evidence" that student-driven entrepreneurial culture could support the university's research and collaboration strategy?

Hanna Ojuva: I think one problem I hear a lot with the researchers and with entrepreneurial circles too, is that there are not so many R2B businesses happening. Research doesn't get commercialised. What I am seeing in our community is we have a lot of students that just have a desire to build something. Even though they would not have any idea what to build, they just want to build a business. And then, we have researchers who are really into their research but do not necessarily want to build a business. So, I think if we could combine these two, these students who are ready to do anything and the researchers who have the technology or whatever they are doing, I think we would have a lot more businesses in our area.

Tomi Tuovinen: And I think that we have seen a lot of examples how this has been done in other parts of Finland. If you could ask the university for one concrete form of support that would strengthen the collaboration between students and research for growth entrepreneurship start-ups, what would that be?

Hanna Ojuva: First thing that comes to mind is that, could you please answer our emails a little earlier? [Chuckles] We are doing the hackathon and really needing help. And then it just goes, months go on, and we are still waiting for the answer. So, just activity on that side. We really want to collaborate and we need you. And I believe that the university also needs us. So, just that we would have a better communication between each other. I know that it can be hard for the staff because they have their teaching, their own research — a lot of things to balance. So, making an event with students, that can be a lot. But I would say that probably there must be someone who has time for this.

Mikael Myllymäki: It sounds like you are suggesting an agile start-up like clock frequency, which I think is actually, for many of us, a good way to live by.

Tomi Tuovinen: And a dedicated person responsible for that. But I have to say also that based on that experience, you have learned your lessons because now you are organising the next thing with the university six months prior, right?

Hanna Ojuva: Yes. And still, we are waiting for the response. [Chuckles]

Tomi Tuovinen: I have to talk to somebody about that. Let us move on to the third section today. Let us talk a little bit about leadership and vision and student motivation. And let us continue with Hanna. How would you describe to students what they personally would get from participating in entrepreneurial activities, even if they never end up founding a company? I think we covered this already a little bit, but it is good to revise this again.

Hanna Ojuva: I think it is, as I said before, character development. When you start doing things, you just learn, in a way. I believe that a university is a good space to learn academically, that you get the information and the research you need. But then, the hands-on doing. For example, just being the chair of the Entrepreneurship Society, I feel like I have already had a company. Because I need to think of the funding; I need to think of the activities; I need to lead other people. So, even if I do not have a company ever, I have already gained these skills of funding and leadership and just managing projects.

Tomi Tuovinen: And what observations have you made about how the development of the JoES community could influence the university on a bigger scale? For example, some kind of new collaboration projects or new ways of working? Or in the universities, even cooperation policies?

Hanna Ojuva: I think something we could bring to the table is this fast lane of piloting things. Because usually when you have an idea and you go to talk to someone at the university, they say, "Good idea. But you should probably go to this course first and do this first." Those are important things to do, but it does not have to be like "I need to do this first to do this." So, I think we could bring some more life. Less bureaucracy on the side, but still the theory. Building a bridge between doing and thinking.

Mikael Myllymäki: And if I may add, I think also mindset is really a key thing that you bring to the table. I mean, there usually is a lot more than just developing a great technology that goes into building a company. Products, scaling, sales and all of that. And getting that mindset in there, that there is more to commercialisation than just the technology, and getting that in early as possible, I think that really helps down the line. So, again, I think this kind of combination is a very valuable one.

Tomi Tuovinen: Why do you think that student-driven entrepreneurial culture is not just a nice extra but an actual investment in the university's future start-ups and the region's vitality?

Hanna Ojuva: I think what Mikael said about the mindset goes really well to this question in a way that when I talked to a lot of students and just asked what they wanted to do after graduation, what their dreams were, which goes to the mindset, people were kind of depressed. Many people were just saying that they would probably graduate as unemployed or just do something. And I think if we invest in this community that brings life, that helps students to find their strengths and really helps them dream and just do what ideas they get, then that is good for the region because after they graduate, they have some kind of vision, some kind of clarity where they want to go, what they want to try, and what they already have been trying. I think that is where it comes from.

Tomi Tuovinen: Absolutely, empowering these people in whatever they decide to do with their life. What about Mikael? Funds like Redstone see universities as potential long-term partners. So, what would an ideal collaboration between UEF and venture capital players like you look like in five years?

Mikael Myllymäki: To me, the outcome really is that entrepreneurship would really be a mainstream activity. It would not be a small thing some people do but actually a very valid career choice. It goes back to what you have been discussing there this whole podcast. I mean, it is very important. And if we compare to, again, the Stanfords, Oxfords, MITs of the world, I think there is a step further that's been done. And there are both the process aspects, but also the empowerment of the people, as we have been discussing, and just that belief or allowing for that belief and making that happen. And as an investor, I cannot stress enough that for our North Karelia Growth Fund, it is critical for our success that there is that opportunity for aspiring entrepreneurs because they are exactly then the founders whom we can back in the next stage of the process. So, we do want to see that as "fertile" as possible.

Tomi Tuovinen: You were already talking a little bit about the main official missions of the university that are research and education. So, let us say that a university leadership would be asking you, "Why should we invest in student-driven entrepreneurial culture when our priorities are already research and education?" What would be your convincing counter-argument that connects entrepreneurship still with the university's core values?

Mikael Myllymäki: I will start by pointing out that if you have the words "invest in" and "students" in the same question, the answer should automatically be "yes." I mean, back your people here. It is student-led. So, I think it is our role, the community's role, the university's role to enable these students and let them do what they do. So, back your people when you have the opportunity. And when we put that into the broader context, again, of the Finnish economy, North Karelia, Europe, et cetera, we do need to innovate. We do need to create growth. We do need to scale. Global champions are the best of our possibility here. So, universities are here to build the future. That is the role. And venture capital and start-ups are a proven model for that scaling. Now that we have fantastic individuals like Hanna here who really want to build these companies and be part of that, then it should be our role to enable that, let them drive that energy into building something great.

Tomi Tuovinen: If we look a little even beyond Finland's borders, you were already mentioning a few examples, but if we look at the role of European universities, including the University of Eastern Finland, what kind of role could they play in building the next trillion-euro opportunity, the unicorns, through start-ups?

Mikael Myllymäki: Truly transformational ideas come from innovative technology and rigorous research. So, who better than the universities to answer this question? And they are built by great, motivated people. So, we just need to harness this potential we have and then enable the people who want to build that, support them. And I always come back to what I mentioned at the beginning there, start-up is a people business. We need to back our people. So, it is incumbent upon us as the ecosystem to help these great founders build great companies, and that really does make a difference.

Tomi Tuovinen: If not universities, then who would it be?

Mikael Myllymäki: Exactly.

Tomi Tuovinen: That actually brings us to the end of today's episode already. Time flies when you are having fun. If you are a student, researcher or part of the university's leadership, today's discussion is also an invitation for you. Support all sorts of experimentation, join the communities and help the next generation of these creative thinkers and proactive doers grow into these formidable founders and globally investable start-ups in the long run. Big thanks to you, our guests! Thank you, Mikael, for being here from Redstone VC. And thank you, Hanna, from Joensuu Entrepreneurship Society for sharing your insights on this matters. And also, thanks to all of our listeners for joining this episode. Follow the show for any more conversations about how we are exploring the world of innovation and research, and how ideas grow and move toward real-world opportunities. Until next time, and stay tuned for the next episode of UEF Innovation Pathways Podcast! Thank you very much!

Mikael Myllymäki: Thank you. 

Hanna Ojuva: Thank you.